Monday May 5, 2024 – Speaker: Andy Nichols
Logistics: In-Person, Webex Option; Webex is set, In Person @ Regent Hotel Conf Center
For IN PERSON Attendance: Buy Tickets HERE (Member Planet)
https://app.memberplanet.com/#/event/asqannarborsection/asqannarbormay2025meetingwithandynicholsinternalauditsyoumightbedoingthemwrong
Time: Networking: 5:30 PM-6:00 PM, Presentation: 6:00 PM- 7:00 PM
Note: Officer / Volunteer Meeting follows ~7:10 PM-8:00 PM
TOPIC: Internal Audits – You Might Be Doing Them Wrong!
Abstract: A significant sector of currently available auditor training is based on a frame work which was established years before ISO 9001 publication in 1987, and therefore, before 3rd party (CAB) certification was available.
The very first "Lead Auditor" training was developed within a number of the UK's (then) government-owned procurement entities, such as British Gas, the CEGB, the Ministry of Defence and others. A professional standard of quality assessment was needed by them to ensure government funds were spent with suppliers who were capable of meeting the procurement quality requirements - or the Prime Minister was asked difficult questions about a lack of business awards in a constituency, by the Member of Parliament representing those suppliers!
With the arrival of ISO 9001 Certification, the first CABs were looking for similar auditor qualifications, so Lead Auditor became the required training for 3rd Party auditors too - mainly since there was nothing else available. Some CABs even started running their own training (against the accreditation rules?) Indeed, I have delivered BSI's and UL's Lead Auditor courses - both rebranded versions of the Excel Partnership courses, which were some of the earliest available (based on the British Gas organization's SQA training). Further more, it became almost de rigueur to attend a Lead Auditor course, partly to learn what a CAB auditor would do during certification audits - to be prepared!
To satisfy the need, because ISO 9001 required Internal Audits, auditor training courses simply became a stripped-back version of 2 days length, not the Lead Auditor's 4 or 5 days. Same basic framework, methods, terminology etc. What could go wrong?
35 years later, nothing substantial has changed. We're still using a model for auditing based on external audits. The result is that organizations get little/no benefit from their internal audits. The planning is minimal. There's little engagement with anyone affected by the audits. As a result, internal auditors get little/no recognition and, experience shows, often become disenfranchised. In addition, 3rd Party Certification auditors see results of the organization's internal audits which are similar to theirs – after all, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!
Time to change!
More emphasis should be placed on engaging the leadership and in consideration of the performance of the organization’s business processes, particularly in the ability to meet customers’ needs as well as effectively and efficiently. Less effort should be expended on arbitrary aspects such as a regular calendar of audits or auditing ISO clauses.
About: Andy has more than 40 years’ Quality Management experience in multiple roles. He has been involved in the implementation and 3rd Party certification of Quality Management Systems including ISO 9001, AS 9100, and IATF 16949, as well as ISO/IEC 17025.
Andy is an active member of ISO TC 176, which writes the ISO 9000 standards. He is a Fellow of the UK’s Chartered Quality Institute, an “IRCA” Principal Auditor, holds certification as Exemplar Global “Certified Lead Trainer” and is a member of the ASQ. Andy has authored 3 books on Quality Management Systems and Auditing.