We also need to deliver on "What's next?" after certification to retain members.

50 Replies

We also need to deliver on "What's next?" after certification to retain members.

Posted by Dan Burrows on May 12, 2018 2:04 pm

An important aspect of ASQ certifications is that it is a big part of bringing people into ASQ since ASQ's certifications are seen as cerdible evidence by industry and hiring managers of one's qualification.  You even see job postings where CQE or CRE or Blackbelt certification is required.

That is the good news.

The bad news is that a lot of members join, get their certification fee discount, get their certification, and then drop their membership.  What should we be delivering for "What's next?"

If you are a recent member and have stayed, what kept you?

If you are a recent member, got your certification, and are now considering dropping your membership, what would ASQ, Divisions, and Sections need to do to keep you?

Some possibilities:
- Social media type portals like myASQ here
- Other virtual communications
- Real world interactions like the Sections provide
- Other real world interactions such as impromptu meet ups
- Mentor/mentee opportunities
- More, deeper content from Divisions and our Body of Knowledge
- Opportunities to serve as a volunteer
- Opportunities to lead as a volunteer
- Follow on certifications to guide yout career path (the ASQ Six Sigma Forum already has this with the belts progression but other Divisions don't)
- Other possibilities?

Thanks,
Dan






 where the Divisions need to keep members engaged through their continuing professional development.  We have done this through our webinars and the RAMS Symposium and other conferences and training events that we have sponsored.  We are also in the early stages of developing follow on certifications or "micro-credentials" that provide a path beyond the CRE.


 
Dan Burrows ASQ Reliability & Risk Division - Chair

Re: We also need to deliver on "What's next?" after certification to retain members.

Posted by Doug Sadtler on May 12, 2018 4:38 pm

Dan, et al.

I am technically still a "new member," in my fourth year of ASQ Membership.  With three of those years in Section Leadership, my ASQ knowledge has been a fasttrack that I wish were probably better eased into.  That said, though...the number one reason I stay is because of the National [and International now] Contacts I have not only met, but ENGAGED with.  I have spent my working career in family-originated businesses that were largely ignorant of Reward and Recognition as a business strategy in-part.  The integrity and depth of many of my Contacts means more to me...perhaps than my Certifications (and believe me, I am proud of those).  The Contacts I admire the most are the ones who have encouraged me and pushed me...to do better, be better, and accomplish things that aren't on my experience-list at the time.  Why do I stay?  To honor those Contacts who make me better than I was four years ago.

I firmly believe that there is a great deal I can contribute here, the tricky part is figuring out WHERE that best applies.  The problem with fasttracking through a System is that there is so much you blow right past, that when it flags you down in the rear-view mirror, you have to make a decision as to whether it's worth going back for!!  As a pragmatist and somewhat perfectionist, I make a lot of stops, and I need to learn some focus, so that I can contribute my best every day, instead of perfecting the art of the Shuttle Run!  As I consider certifications from other Societies at this point, the value of these Contacts remains my crucial focus for remaining an ASQ member.  For as smart as I am, I could use their mentoring, especially with my desire of giving back in substantial ways in the future.  

The opportunities to bring graduates and students new to the profession - to prepare them for a launching experience in their career is powerful.  I think back to my Graduation Day and not being prepared for the industry I wanted to enter, and remember how even just a little push would have been all the help I could ask for.  

As for the Division help, I could use a Feedback Partner.  I am new to the Audit Division, and would love some feedback on my first official Internal Audits from my previous employment.  I'm an outsanding writer, but can I write a more impactful Report?  In QMD, what are the best skills for me to have fully polished if I am to seek a Quality Manager job.  Did I make a pragmatic mistake in skipping my CQI when I got my CQA?  I have the CQI BoK, I simply have not tested for it.  As for Sections, how do I engage the 95% of members who don't come to local meetings and don't answer queries for their VoC?  Is a webinar going to provide better engagement?  With regard to ASQ HQ, for all the B2B that exists in my city, how do I engage without viloating the MOU process?  With ASQ's B2B Executive having departed recently, what does that do for that Strategic Business Unit's strategy.  I didn't know what it looked like before, and this latest senior-level mix-up is the latest press of the pause buttton.

For all the chaos that transformation has brought, all one can do is focus on what works.  For now, banter with my Contacts works, while my other pursuits commense around me.  I finally get to do some Baldrige Examining this year, and I am really excited about it - it's powerful value that applies everywhere in a business.  It will allow me to practice my Auditing to a new level, which is what I want to concentrate on, to begin with.  These are great questons to pose, Dan, and I hope you get a bevy of useful answers.

-Doug Sadtler

 
Doug Sadtler, CQA, CQPA * Quality Inspector - Allen Edmonds * Chair - Section #1118 * Nashville, TN www.linkedin/in/douglassadtlerquality

Re: We also need to deliver on "What's next?" after certification to retain members.

Posted by Dan Burrows on May 12, 2018 9:56 pm

Doug,

You have done so much more in four years as a member than most do in their entire engagtement with ASQ.  You are a role model that even those who have been around ASQ much longer can follow.

If yours is the only response I get, I am happy because I know that there is one dedicated professional trying to get all he can from ASQ but more importantlly trying to give all he can.

Thanks,
Dan
Dan Burrows ASQ Reliability & Risk Division - Chair

Re: We also need to deliver on "What's next?" after certification to retain members.

Posted by Daniel Zrymiak on May 13, 2018 11:46 am

There are two questions that have to be answered.
- What do Quality Practitioners desire to continue their involvement and affiliation in a professional group?
- What can ASQ offer that aligns with and more effectively enables the fulfillment of such desires?

This is the dialogue that every member leader should be having with their consitutents, new and long-standing.  Abiding by this keeps any organization relevant and vibrant for its members.

For example, if people enjoy attending World Conferences, ASQ involvement helps by offering discounts to members who present, moderate, review abstracts, or work as site volunteers.  Some divisions enhance these by sponsoring full or partial travel costs to those who work at the exhibiiton hall booth or volunteer at the hospitality events.  In my case, ASQ has funded my registration for being an awardee (3X), conference speaker (5X), and reviewer/moderator (2X).  The reviewer/moderator option is limited to Senior and Fellow members, so there is an added incentive to upgrade from Full to Senior Member of ASQ.

The 10X complimentary conference registrations could represent a $10,000 member benefit (although ASQ membership is not required to be a conference speaker).  That aggregated member value exceeds the costs of over 60 years of ASQ annual membership dues (at $159/year), so in my case, I can't afford NOT to be in ASQ.

A third question should be posed.
- What would turn you off and cause you to withdraw from a membership group?

In my case, when the leadership is insular and aloof, and does not freely share or disclose its intentions, that removes trust.  When there is a perceived advantage of nonincidental benefits or a blatant self-serving agenda that benefits Society executives and insiders at the expense of volunteer members, that is enough to vanish my individual engagement.  The only way a membership organization can work is through the Servant Leader model.  


 

Re: We also need to deliver on "What's next?" after certification to retain members.

Posted by Amanda Foster on Jun 25, 2018 10:39 am

Dan,
I would like to agree with a lot of what Doug is saying in his response. When I first started in the Quality field ASQ was extremely valuable to me. I also skipped the CQI and went straight for the CQA. Currently I am preparing for the QMQ/OE. These certifications are valuable, but they alone would not be enough for me to justify maintaining my ASQ membership. It is the professional and personal relationships I have developed while volunteering with the ITEA that keeps me in the fold. 
You offered a bunch of suggestions:
" Social media type portals like myASQ here
- Other virtual communications
- Real world interactions like the Sections provide
- Other real world interactions such as impromptu meet ups
- Mentor/mentee opportunities
- More, deeper content from Divisions and our Body of Knowledge
- Opportunities to serve as a volunteer
- Opportunities to lead as a volunteer
- Follow on certifications to guide yout career path "
Any of these would be very welcome to me. In my case I do not get much value from my local section and have basically stopped attending meeting. I would gladly if I felt the ROI was in my favor, though. In particular, I would like to have Mentor/mentee opportunities and more, deeper contents from divisions and their BoK. ASQ offers a lot to those beginning their quality journey, but there is not much to keep you growing unless you are willing to buy more products (books, courses, etc.). I am trying to use this online forum to derive more tangible value from my ASQ Senior membership.
 
Amanda Foster, ASQ CQA

Re: We also need to deliver on "What's next?" after certification to retain members.

Posted by Dan Burrows on Jun 27, 2018 9:23 pm

Amanda Foster, I do hope that you find in this forum the member value you are looking for and even ways to contribute and serve too.

If you have any interest in Reliability & Risk, you are welcome to peruse what we have at www.asqrd.org
We have opened our site up (don't worry about the login indicated at the top of the home page since we are figuring out o=how to remove this without crashing some of the pages) and you can get to all our content, register for upcoming webinars, and search through our past webinars.
Dan Burrows ASQ Reliability & Risk Division - Chair

Re: We also need to deliver on "What's next?" after certification to retain members.

Posted by Harry Rowe on Jun 28, 2018 5:27 am

One other model that has been suggested for ASQ consideration is a subscription training model as is used by Lynda.com and DataCamp. In this model, people pay a monthly or annual subscription fee and in return, they receive unlimited access to a growing list of online training courses. These for profit two organizations have a robust training business at around $250 per year for a subscription.

As a not for profit, ASQ has an obligation to both advance the art and science of quality, and to increase the number of people with this knowledge and skills. Divisions and sections could partner to develop and improve a large selection of courses. The Voice of the Customer Committee Satisfaction and Loyalty survey in 2014 suggested that low cost, convenient, online training would be welcomed by many members. HQ could provide the required software infrastructure based on free, open source Learning Management Software like Moodle. Members would have an ongoing incentive to stay. Membership would rise. Revenue per member would rise. Win-win-win.
Harry Rowe Certified Manager of Quality and Organizational Excellence ASQ Senior Member

Re: We also need to deliver on "What's next?" after certification to retain members.

Posted by Amanda Foster on Jun 28, 2018 8:06 am

Dan,

Thank you, I will check out your resources. Reliability makes me nervous because I know very little, I am ready and willing to learn. Risk is fascinating to me and I have been devouring information on the subject.

I am disappointed in the lack of involvement on this forum, but I get it. I have worked very hard to be involved right now because I have a lot of questions right now and the time to ask them. For many others I am sure the ROI is not high enough at this point.
Amanda Foster, ASQ CQA

Re: We also need to deliver on "What's next?" after certification to retain members.

Posted by Amanda Foster on Jun 28, 2018 8:11 am

Harry,

A subscription service at the price point you suggest would be an excellent resource for someone like me. I have been very interested in some of the courses offered by ASQ, but generally they are not within my reach. At the price point you mentioned I could probably convince my company to purchase a subscription for me. I am the only dedicated Quality person, so the more I can learn and educate others with, the better. Since we are a small company, the education/training budget, especially for external training, is fairly small. I will be watching to see if this idea comes to fruition!
Amanda Foster, ASQ CQA

Re: We also need to deliver on "What's next?" after certification to retain members.

Posted by Dan Burrows on Jun 30, 2018 9:56 am

Amanda,

As the lone quality practitioner at a small company with a small budget for training seeking help to learn and develop, you are the exact type of person that ASQ's Sections and Divisions were targeted to serve.

Unfortunately, the ASQ BoD and ASQ HQ is changing the direction and actively rewriting the Bylaws, Policies, and Procedures of ASQ to mainly focus on Organizational Members and pseudo consulting because we Individual Members are just small potatoes when it comes to the financial largess that ASQ HQ has become.  As you are now experiencing, Individual Members are getting priced out of our own Society.

Well, at least you can learn and get some value for free from our division.  Don't forget, www.asqrd.org , for content, webinars, and recorded webinars (sorry that I put our plug in here again, but just in case others read this response - ha!).
Dan Burrows ASQ Reliability & Risk Division - Chair

Re: We also need to deliver on "What's next?" after certification to retain members.

Posted by Amanda Foster on Jul 2, 2018 6:24 am

Dan,

I am checking out your resources right now. There is so much there. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. I may need an interpreter and have questions, but Looks like some great stuff there.

I wish my local section were a better resource, but I live in a has-been area that is bleeding talent by the day, so I'm not really surprised that my section somewhat reflects that. There are some very nice and talented people there, but most of the time the meetings do not justify the effort (and time away from my family).

I have been to the last three WCQI because I volunteered in a way that provided complimentary registration and my company was willing to pick up the travel expenses. These have been very useful in my training and development. The volunteer opportunities that brought me to the conferences have been an added bonus.

I have been involved in the ITEA program for several years as well, and this has been the biggest benefit. I have met some wonderful people who have mentored me in various ways, and I have learned so much about the application of quality principles in real life projects.

I am now trying to take the best advantage of myASQ since it is another free resource. Just like everything else, it is what you make of it! Thanks for being one of those great resources I can tap in to.

-Amanda
Amanda Foster, ASQ CQA

Re: We also need to deliver on "What's next?" after certification to retain members.

Posted by Daniel Wait on Aug 9, 2018 7:36 am

I don't have a solution, but I do have some potential insight as a new member for the main reason of getting certification. 
  • I did not seek certification (six sigma green belt) or even know about ASQ prior to a workplace developed an initiative that pointed me here (from people that already had certification here)
  • I'm not seeking full time work in quality improvement outside of my current role. This is meant to supplement my work and those in my circle of influence.
It's too easy to feel the "in a foreign land" syndrome. Even worse to be in that state when I have a semi-clear business path outside (albiet parallel) to quality work. 

I stay because my curiosity and diverse work background has almost always paid off for me. I also stay because work pays for and supports it. I'm not sure everyone else taking advantage (or forced to take advantage?) of certification would say the same. 

Re: We also need to deliver on "What's next?" after certification to retain members.

Posted by David Harry on Aug 9, 2018 10:24 am

My thoughts on What's Next:
ASQ needs to rethink about partnering with industry, educational institutions, healthcare systems and other manufacturing and service organizations to offer tangible value-added benefits that create a pull system for their potential individual members. ASQ needs to provide a "pull" system in which our industrial partners incentivize their employees to become engaged individual members who will participate in divisions, sections and share the quality word.  I often teach at enterprise-member companies and their employees know nothing about ASQ.  Why is this?  Perhaps because ASQ is not doing enough to create that needed "pull" system whereby our partners help ASQ draw individual members into ASQ. For example, with low US single-digit unemployment, ASQ can partner with hiring companies to ghost write or at least provide templates for positions that embrace quality skills that ASQ provides a certification. What if ASQ encouraged more enterprise and company partners to develop more position descriptions included the words "ASQ"? That would go a long way to developing a pull system to retain members (and gain new members) through ASQs industry partners.
Best, Dave Harry, PMP® CSSBB LBC The Process Whisperer®, Greeneville, TN

Re: We also need to deliver on "What's next?" after certification to retain members.

Posted by Dan Burrows on Aug 23, 2018 9:38 am

Cynthia Nazario‍ 

Please see the post from Himanxim Ant - our first security breach and spam on myASQ?
Dan Burrows ASQ Reliability & Risk Division - Chair

Re: We also need to deliver on "What's next?" after certification to retain members.

Posted by Cynthia Nazario on Aug 23, 2018 10:47 am

Thank you for reporting this, Dan Burrows‍. We’ve removed the post and account. You can also mark content objectionable to report it.
Product Owner

Re: We also need to deliver on "What's next?" after certification to retain members.

Posted by Amanda Foster on Aug 29, 2018 6:49 am

David Harry‍ great ideas. I especially like this " ASQ can partner with hiring companies to ghost write or at least provide templates for positions that embrace quality skills that ASQ provides a certification. What if ASQ encouraged more enterprise and company partners to develop more position descriptions included the words "ASQ"?" there was a gentleman on a different thread looking for something just like this.

I have a friend in manufacturing who was working in quality but shifted out into a different part of the process (I think research). She is still interested in quality and how it applies to her current position (imagine that!) and she really benefited from her local ASQ chapter, but she found the dues too cumbersome once her company was no longer subsidizing them and she left ASQ. Just a thought, maybe there is still a need for associate membership of some kind for people like her. Some involvement is better than none at all, right?
Amanda Foster, ASQ CQA

Re: We also need to deliver on "What's next?" after certification to retain members.

Posted by David Harry on Aug 29, 2018 7:31 am

Thanks Amanda,
Having been a Division volunteer for many years, I recognized a gap in informing enterprise members what was available to them at local Sections and at Divisions.  For instance, if a enterprise company HQ was in Chicago, but they had a huge plane in South Carolina, the enterprise members in SC may not be aware of the ASQ events in their local area.  We have many enterprise and corporate members who never convert to individual membership and miss out on so many local events because the enterprise companies don't help them and the local Sections aren't aware of the Associate members living in the area.  We need to do more help the companies advocate for ASQ on the member level and share some of the info on potential members living in the local Section's area.  On a division level, I worked with an enterprise company and set up a booth in their spaces and with 6 laptops, converted hundreds of employee to Associate membership over two days.  They didn't even know they could attend local ASQ Section events. Now they can.
Best, Dave Harry, PMP® CSSBB LBC The Process Whisperer®, Greeneville, TN

Re: We also need to deliver on "What's next?" after certification to retain members.

Posted by Amanda Foster on Aug 29, 2018 7:42 am

I don't have a local section that works out very well for me. The meeting times and places are not compatible with my schedule and the topics are often very manufacturing based. The members are generally friendly, it's just not generally workable for me.

I have benefited greatly by my ASQ involvement at the national/international level, especially the ITEA. Maybe the local chapter will be a better fit in the future, we shall see.
Amanda Foster, ASQ CQA

Re: We also need to deliver on "What's next?" after certification to retain members.

Posted by Christianna Hayes on Sep 1, 2018 10:10 am

What's next is a great question and one that I look at all the time for my personal clients and the companies I've worked for. Getting a certification is great for the paper resume but doesn't prepare you properly for the application of the content you learned and tested on. The CSSBB has a project affidavit, but there's only summary information reported and only randomly verified. So, with that, what's the right answer? When I teach my own Lean, LSS, etc. certification courses, I always offer a coaching session where we use the concepts in a project together. I want anyone getting my certifications to be prepared to actually use the tools and techniques they just tested on. I teach with ASQ and I know we are looking at ways to offer this type of thing to purchasers of training at a company level. It seems like it would be easy but there's a lot to consider so the process in approving this is slow. For individuals, the "what's next" could be projects or small problems that divisions or sections allow new certification holders to work on to give them practice. In LED, we talked about having our members do projects for the division. Win/Win. It didn't stick like we wanted it to but I think that was more about execution ineffectiveness than idea soundness. We've talked about a mentoring program within ASQ for a long time and can't seem to get it off the ground (I've tried personally through my role as YQP Chair of the TCC). That would be another avenue of serving "what's next". ASQ is such a big ship with crew members that change so often that it's difficult to put things into place that stick but I think that divisions and sections (as a joint effort) could come up with some "what's next" type of practical work for folks to do after they certify. By the way, Dave Harry is correct - we need to create a pull system so that people would even know to come to us and ask "hey, I got your CQA last week. What do you have in the way of practice audits, example reports, templates or case studies I could use to practice?". Keep asking the questions. With out new model, maybe we can get some cross synergies going to answer some of them. 

Re: We also need to deliver on "What's next?" after certification to retain members.

Posted by Dan Burrows on Sep 1, 2018 10:14 pm

Christianna Hayes‍ 
Your response actually points to a big problem with ASQ Certifications. You indicated that having a certification is great on the resume but doesn't prepare you for the application of the content you learned and tested on.  To my understanding, all ASQ Certifications first require proficiency and then certification, not the other way around.  ASQ has allowed certifications to be degraded by treating them as a revenue generator and not the professional qualification that they are supposed to be.  This is why they don't hold the same status as something like a Professional Engineer license.  I cannot tell you how many people I have run across who have 5 or 10 or more ASQ Certifications.  If they are not a hundred years old, there is no way they legitimately gained certification, but ASQ turns a blind eye, collects the fee and prints out the certification.
Dan Burrows ASQ Reliability & Risk Division - Chair

Re: We also need to deliver on "What's next?" after certification to retain members.

Posted by Daniel Zrymiak on Sep 1, 2018 10:36 pm

Hi

Dan Burrows‍ , Christianna Hayes‍ 

I am one of those who has between 5-10 renewable certifications, and my 7 were certainly legitimate when I got them between 1998 and 2004.  

Back in the TQM era, ASQ certifications were relatively inexpensive.  I was fortunate to be part of a section which offered refresher training at a cost that recovered photocopying of example questions.  All-in, I don't think a certification ever cost more than $300 USD apiece, including the training and self-study material.

While some certs like CRE and CSQE are distinct, most of ASQ's other certifications have overlapping common portions of their respective Bodies of Knowledge.  The Certification Bodies of Knowledge for CQE and CSSBB overlap about 80%, and can support certification studies for CSSGB, CSSYB, CQIA, CQPA, CQT.  I wrote the CMQ/OE back when it was the CQM, and it was a hybrid of multiple choice and essay writing.  I passed, but was never informed how well my written portion was scored.

The auditing certifications also have an interesting history.  The CQA was always a core certification.  About 18 years ago, ASQ offered specialized CQA credentials for each of HACCP (Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Point) and Biomedical auditing, which I completed.  Since then, the CQA-HACCP was converted into the CHA, and the CQA-Biomedical was converted into the CBA.  Unfortunately, the auditing credentials were strictly academic, as the Registrar Accreditation Board (now Exemplar) still requires CQAs to supplement their certification with additional training.

To replicate my portfolio from a standing start in 2018, a member would now need to invest a minimum of $3,000 for certification fees alone.  This would need to be supplemented with handbooks or study guides and complementary books (Juran Quality Control Handbook is a recommended resource).  After dropping another $1,000 for study material, the member could partake in a breadth of ASQ's certification training courses, now costing hundreds or even thousands of dollars.

https://asq.org/training/lean-six-sigma-black-belt-training-ssb

Again, I consider myself fortunate to have been in ASQ prior to the era of $9,999 certification courses.  I have always wondered how ASQ, as a tax-exempt 501c3 non-profit, could offer such courses without incurring a private benefit to its most privileged members.